Natalia Oganesyan is a medicine woman hailing from Armenia. In the first hour of our interview she discusses her Armenian heritage, her journey on the plant medicine path, motherhood, the accrued wisdom in aging, her practice, and more. In the second hour Natalia opens up for the first time about her experience with her teacher, an ayahuasca shaman from a long traditional lineage. Here, she shares what is rarely talked about, and that is the psychological hold some shamans have on their students, and the black magic that is used in the process. It's important to know this goes on, especially for those new to this path who are genuinely seeking help and spiritual guidance. With visionary plant and fungi so regaled today, we need to have the full story and that means the dark side too.